Wednesday, March 23, 2011

Chaos Theory

So, I have been trying like hell to develop a winning Chaos Space Marine list. My younger brother plays CSM and has been trouble building a list he really likes.My opinion has somewhat helped him out, He has his own thoughts on the Spiky Marines, so I thought I would try to create my own analysis and winning list. From the list, I intend to start my own renegade band of CSM and unleash it upon the universe. I will make this a long-term project and be posting my analysis and thoughts on each individual unit in the codex. Analysis will focus on unique abilities/wargear, overall utility, and comparison to other codexes, particularly Marine codexes.

So stay tuned for my first analysis.


  1. For 1850 Adepticon, Typhus and 60 plaguemarines. Go.

    The only issue with this is if someone manages to tarpit it repeatedly with resilient units. You will not beat it on kill points, and they are large and resilient enough units to contest multiple objectives. Have fun.

  2. I posted this over on my blog but thought I’d throw it in here as a commentary that might have some weight in your discussion. I do play Death Guard though, so no Tzeench or Slaneesh… I take a little Khorne support though.

    For my HQ’s I really only consider two options. Kharn or a Nurgle Demon Prince with Warptime (wings are optional). Kharn is just great! I’ve rarely had him survive a full game but he always leaves his mark on the battlefield in a pile of bodies. I run him with a unit of Berserkers (my allies) in a Land Raider and he is guaranteed to make something go away.

    The Demon Prince is a whole different animal and in his day was quite something. The Mark of Nurgle is possibly not the most efficient option but a must for me, however Warptime makes him a guaranteed beast in assault. Giving him wings makes him 100 times better but I have 3 Demon Prince Models, 2 of which don’t have wings so I will often bring him on foot. The game has changed though and frankly Demon Princes are just not that good anymore. A 3+ save is not that hot with armies like my Red Corsairs putting out 27 Krak missiles a turn and the near inability to get cover saves just makes him a fish in a barrel.

    For the rest of the army, well Plague Marines are a given and are my go to. While I take the one unit for Berserkers in my Land Raider I like 2-4 Plague Marine units to form the lists backbone. The question becomes how big are the squads? 5 Plague Marines with 2 Plasma Guns in a Rhino with a Havoc is 195 points. 10 Plague Marines with 2 Plasma Guns and a Champion with a Power Fist in a Rhino with a Havoc is 350 points. The larger squad is combat effective and more versatile but close to double the cost…

    For my elites I tend not to go with Terminators though I am considering rethinking that. I personally really like Chosen. A small unit with 5 Plasma Guns infiltrated into a nice position to lay down devastating firepower is pretty potent though theme aside I would not take any mark with them except a standard Undivided for the morale reroll. They are sacrificial but should play their part before you lose them.

    Fast I ignore unless I am able to bring Forgeworlds Blight Drones (effectively Nurgle Land Speeders with battle cannons…) which leaves Heavy. Everyone goes for Obliterators here and I’m no exception, however Defilers work too. Stripped of extra weapons for a boosted number of close assault attacks they can lay down some fire before ploughing into combat where they will shred most anything. Beware though as with AV12 a power fist will penetrate them one in three hits. They are also not going to get cover and will go down to that barrage of missiles.

    So pulling this together how does my list look? DP/Kharn leading a unit of Berserkers in a Land Raider with 2-3 units of Plague Marines supported by Obliterators and some Chosen plasma gunners.

    Does it work? In the past yes very well. I’ve never (and I stand proud saying this) lost to vanilla space marines (and I played them a lot in tournaments) and have placed within the top 3rd of Adepticon for multiple years. That said last year was probably my worst showing and the list is feeling dated. Too many things shred Demon Princes and Defilers and double out Obliterators. Most armies put out so much high strength firepower and spam so many vehicles that Obliterators are just not that impressive anymore. FNP is no longer special and berserkers struggle to cause the fear they once did. Frankly I feel very elite and not so special with a list that looks a little like the Grey Knight builds I’m starting to see showing up without nearly the benefits.